Monday, July 23, 2007

Lal masjid massacre Part 2 : The woman of Lal masjid

The following is an in depth interview conducted by the highly respected Dr.Shahid Masood at the Lal masjid, with both the female students and the late Abdul Rashid Ghazi. This interview is from March of this year on the "Meray Mutabiq" program( urdu for "in my opinion"). Masood was fired from the ARY channel(thanks to "pressure" from Musharraf's goons) and moved to GEO TV. Contrary to popular misinformation, this affair started after 7/7 when Musharraf ordered a raid on the masjid(at the "request" of the British government to crack down on madrassas) in which commandos fired upon and severely beat the female students(who consequently retaliated in the second raid with batons and ejected the thugs). I've provided a short summary for each video segment(if any of you tech wizards can add subtitles, I'll do a full translation)

Introductory segment. Dr. Masood raises the question of how far can people in civil society go before breaking the law. Ghazi explains that there is no law and order in Pakistan and that his students only took action(against the brothel) after all other options were exhausted.

Masood asks Ghazi if he will forcibly enforce public morality, to which Ghazi responds this is an entirely different matter where criminal activity was taking place out in the open, with the authorities sitting on their hands despite repeated complaints. Hence the citizens arrest, detainment, and subsequent closure of the brothel with the departure of its madame from the area.
One of the ladies asks where is the law, and how its the duty of individuals in society to make corrections with their hands, citing Hadith.

Some statements in english here. An explanation of why the sisters started to use batons in self-defense after repeated raids and physical assaults. Ghazi dismisses the accusation of "talibization" as a smear tactic propagated in the western press, especially after 7/7. We also learn that 6500 students are enrolled at the masjid.

Concluding segment. More details of how rangers beat woman during the initial raid. Ghazi states that any assault would be "a great mishap."


Vigilante said...

Accounts differ.

DrMaxtor said...

Not when you've only been told one side of the story. I'll take their word over that of Mush anyday.

nuqtah said...

Dr. Shahid Mas'ood has probably been the only impartial and neutral analyst through out the lal masjid issue and in its aftermath. He always tried to show the other side, at the same time maintaining a balanced point of view.

"Dawn" the leading pakistani english newsdaily reported that the govt. had "recovered" the register of students at Jamia Hafsa. And that there were only about 1600 students enrolled there (?!). A convenient excuse for govt. to not account for the thousands of innocent muslimahs who were massacred. Subhan Allah.

It really hurts me to think how many of these sisters have died (and are insha Allah shaheed) and how many are alive.

inna lilahi wa inna ilayhi raji'oon.

O said...

Ummm...though what happened was sad, and the army should have just starved these brainwashed yobos out, it is totally beyond a shadow of a doubt that these misguided dolts were spreading terror all over Islamabad. Firstly they were hankering about the demolition of ILLGEALLY constructed mosques, next they TOOK OVER a library and destroyed books based on their on archaic interpretations, NEXT they kidnapped a woman on hearsay alone and BEAT HER savagely. These "chicks with stix" also went around threatening CD shops with oblivion if they didnt close down - no alternative was provided as a source of livelihood. Oh and they also shot an SSG commando through the head during the seige..."very innocent". On top of that Mr. Ghazi's brother bravely donned a burqa to try and escape the proceeding blood bath...yeah very noble. Long story short, these fanatics deserved to be shut down. The story, as always is much more complicated than Mushy wrong, hirsute followers "right", these people were no mujhaidden or warriors but hardened fanatics. They dug trenches and what not, and there are plenty

DrMaxtor said...

Wrong on all counts, O. It was not about illegal structures, nor did they kidnap anyone. They detained(something the cops should have done, but they were paid off to look the other way) a "madame" who was running a prostitution ring in broad daylight. They did not beat her, and released after she pledged to ceases her "business."
Thats why I posted video with the full details. Watch them before commenting.

O said...

Dear Dr M. Well, I actually DO understand Urdu and DID see these videos DURING the crisis itself, but one has only to look at youtube, and you find this

An account by this alleged "madame" that she was mistreated. Why should her word be any less than that of the lal brigade? There are videos strewn on the internet about the crisis during and AFTER the debacle, those people wanted a confornation. It is THEY who come across as liars not the overwhelming evidence against them. Just because they say "they didnt" doesnt mean they are right.

The state should have just starved them out, but they were no better than the thugs and criminals they were "acting" against. Sadly, the judiciary which was going to do an inquiry in the whole affair lies dismissed and defeated thanks to the El Dictatore.

AND THEY DID take over property;
how about this article by Cowasjee (one of many) outlining the shennenigans of the Burqa Brigade (which incidentally only got more and more violent as they were given lee way)

To construe this as a mere case of state brutality against anti-prostitution "moomins" is a blatant lie.

As I said, these unarmed "believers":

*Kidnapped chinese citizens. They found their massage parlour unacceptable kidnapped them and extracted promises of virture and good behaviour etc etc. Way to go. No one likes being kidnapped.

*Shot an SSG commando during the seige (where did the weapons come from?)

*Refused to surrender despite being told to do so many times, even by the likes of Maulana Edhi - a true saint of a man.

*Kidnapped police officers, repeatedly. Even police officers have wives and children. Beating them for doing their duty, celebrating their deaths etc is a disgusting practise, they too are forced to do what tehy do due to poverty -extreme poverty which we have no idea about.

*Threatened CD shops (wonder what filth they were propogating oh yeah music and movies the greatest challenge to the ummah today! I probably shall never visit CD shops like Illusions or Haroons again for fear that I may become some fundos idea of a ticket to heaven),

*Called for the violent overthrow of the government and demanded the imposition of shariah law (their version, their judges). This is illegal under Islam, to call for the overthrow of the government, declaring Jihad etc etc. There are many good people in the government too. Just because you dislike their politics does not give you the right to go about declaring people kafir etc.

*The censoring of the movie "Khuda Kay Liye" - In the name of God - God knows why, probably because it discusses the brainwashing by the ilk of the lal brigade - I saw this movie nothing unislamic about it, in fact it was universally loved in Pakistan and abroad by the Pakistani community - and no there wasnt a dance number in sight.

I point all of these facts out merely to illustrate that whilst the government of pakistan is no angel, for instance the Waziristand debacle, The Baluchistan insurgency, etc etc ad nauseum ad infinitum, it must also be recognized that just because someone claims to be religious or a defender of Islam that it isnt always the case.

Mr Ghazi was working out his daddy issues because of the assaination of his late (equally disturbing) father at the hands of fellow extremists and used these poor children as pawns in his own convoluted politics.

As always the people who truly suffered were the poor, ignorant masses of Pakistan, who were caught in the cross fire of secular tyrants, military tyrants, and self proclaimed Islamic jihadists - all of whom have one goal, the quest for absolute power where the can lord over us with their twisted visions of .... whatever it is they dream of.

DrMaxtor said...

Wrong again "O." I don't believe you have seen any of the videos and/or you lack urdu comprehension skills. Every single claim(no different then that of Mud-sheriff's propaganda) you've made has been refuted. Watch it again. I saw the original set of programs on TV long before they showed up on the internet.
Why would I take the word of a woman who runs a brothel over the people of the locality? Why would they go to all this trouble to "kidnap" a single person? They weren't fanatics in any way or form.
This whole fiasco was cooked up by Mud-Sheriff, who then moved his attention to the Supreme Court. Nobody in their right mind believes a bunch of burqa clad woman with sticks are holding a nation of 160 million hostage. Politics as usual, Pakistani style.

O said...

Salam Doctor Sahib.

Pata nahein apnay kaisay yeh davah kiya hai key mujhe urdu nahein aati. Main nai yeh sab baqwaas Ghazi ki dekhi huwi thee dauranay-e-waqt aur main imaan kay saath keh sakta hoon kay yeh aadmi ghalat hai.

Aapnay kohi sabbot nahein paish kiya iss mutalaq sah key yeh aadami sahi hai aur dusray laaug ghalat. Agar aap program kau dekhain gay to Dr Masood bhi is say shikwa kartay hain inki harkatoon par or iskay baad walay programon main bhi yeh silsila jaari tha.

Agar aapnay bina saboot kay in jaisa logon ki vaqalat karni hai tau yeh aap ka masla hai, magar aap sach nahein bol rahay aur yeh sab say ghatiya baat hai.

Aap ka bilkul haq hai kay aap is jaisay insaan ki baatein maan lain, magar yeh kaina keh SIRF yeh sach hai ghalat hai.

Meri yeh iltijah hai Parvardigar sai keh aap Pakistani nahein hain kyun keh hum log bairoon-e-mulk logon sai tang par gahahain hain jo apna intiha pasand islam hamary gharon main lanay par datta huwain hain.

Inshallah aap apnay hee amrika main baith kar tawaifon kay khilaf jihad farma dain. Aur agar aap ko islam sai itni muhabbat hai, tau kaffaron ki mulk main na rahain.

Shurkia Khodhafiz aur Al Vida

I hope that proves i know fluent urdu?

DrMaxtor said...

Bahut ache, O. What I don't understand is why someone who's fluent in urdu can't comprehend the content on the videos? All your allegations are addressed in the program, so whats the matter? Urdu bhul gaye kya?
Living in the West isn't a matter of contention, so why bring up that straw man? Islam aur musalmano se ithni nafrat heh toh deen ko chodh doh. Trust me, nobody will care. Watan farosh or zameer farosh? Both from the looks of things.